Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

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Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby mac » Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:50 pm

Hello
everyone, I am new to this forum and am in need for some translation help. I have come across some old family documents written in Ottoman turkish. It looks like a "tapi" (land deeds) document. I have no idea what it says. On the back is a seal and and some writing which look like "1709" (year of the document?). The document comes from the Macedonian region. If anyone can help, I would deeply appreciate it. Any translation helps, but I am mostly looking for personal and place names and dates. Thank you! :)

Here are the scans:

Front view:
Last edited by mac on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mac
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby etemtezcan » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:10 pm

Hello Mac
date on the back of your document is not 1709, but rather 1259

you can check from ottoman numbers from
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Keypad.jpg

Date on the back is 1259 on Rumi (Solar Ottoman Calendar)
it corresponds to year 1843-44 in Gregorian calendar.

I am very inexperienced in reading Ottoman script but will give a try.
Will notify any results.
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby mac » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:20 am

Thank you etemtezcan :)
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby etemtezcan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:19 am

Found someone to translate :)

In those years all land belonged to Sultan however usage rights belong to people thus it is effectively a deed. Transfer of usage rights are done at Defter-i Hakani (Registry of Sultan) with a document called Sened-i Hakani (Document of Sultan)
Your document is a Sened-i Hakani

Province (Liva) Manastır (Macedonian city)
Subprovince (Kaza): Florina (in Ottoman Macedonia but nowaday in Greece , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florina)
Village: Vakif (this is a common name for villages who belong to some kind of charity/trust)
Neighbors: Trayko, Vbengai, Zife (owners of neighboring fields)


Kind: agricultural field
First owner: Charity/ Trust
Size: 1-1.5 acre (4000-6000 m2). (specifies a land unit called evlek and it has different values in different times)
Usage Rights Seller: Ottoman citizen Koci Veled, son of Boganca
Usage Rights Buyer: Ottoman citizen Ahmet Aga son of Ahmet Aga (Aga is a end name given to Muslim common people)

Value: 300 kurush (antic Ottoman coins with 100 kurush face value has 6.6 gr pure gold in them)

Date 1209 Zilkade (June 1795)

Translator told me doc belongs to 1795. I forgot to take back side near me, thus cannot show him. Back side tells 1259 (according to my understanding) thus not sure whether 1796 or 1844.

Hope it helps,
Etem
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby mac » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:08 am

wwwww
Last edited by mac on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby mac » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:48 am

Here are 3 other different copies from the same date, I don't know if they have the same names like the one above.
Last edited by mac on Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby etemtezcan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:27 pm

Unfortunately I cannot read the hand written script very well.
the sixth row from up (excluding short rows) (the one below the unpopulated row on left side) gives the previous owner.

in all these documents compare this row with corresponding row in other documents. If they all look same, then sellers are all same.
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby Guillo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:40 pm

This is very cool! I'm a sucker for stories of old books, letters and documents showing up. How did you come across these papers? Do you live close to the area that appears on them as former family property?
I come from a small former syrian-lebanese colony in Argentina that through the years developed a big population of people with armenian ancestry. When my grandma died last year we found a lot of her old immigration papers that shed some light on the family past, but all in spanish and nothing from her original homeland except a couple of documents we couldn't understand at the time. I'm a professional translator and this inspired to pick up her language, and I've been studying for a while... but I can barely make out what you other documents say. The image quality is too poor to make something out of the handwriting.
But post anything else you find, I'd love to help!
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby viki4e » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:18 pm

Hey everyone :)
I'm so lucky to have found this forum.
Recently I have found some documents from my grand-grandfather and apparently they are written in Ottoman-Turkish alphabet.
I was trying to translate it myself but it's really hard , so I guess there is someone who might help me.
I have 6 documents that quite look the same although some of the writings are a little bit different.
So I will upload them , I and would be really glad if someone might me interested in helping me.

Tnx in advance
http://img820.imageshack.us/i/photo0515p.jpg/
http://img153.imageshack.us/i/38345369.jpg/
http://img194.imageshack.us/i/35426140.jpg/
http://img404.imageshack.us/i/22501123.jpg/
http://img534.imageshack.us/i/87975441.jpg/


P.S If you find them hard to read, please contact me. I will try to post some better copie :)
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby mac » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:03 am

Hey Etem, just to let you know that an expert on tugras (Ottoman seal) saw these documents and said that the seal on the top belongs to Abdul Hamid II, he was the sultan from 1876–1909, which means that these documents cannot be earlier then 1876.
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Re: Need Translation Help for Ottoman Document

Postby etemtezcan » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:50 pm

ı cannot see imageshack pictures due to some error (also deleted local copy)
pls send one page to (containing seal) to
etem dot tezcan at gmail dot com
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